Psychology

» pink101 - '20 questions'?

In response to '20 questions'? posted by redback:
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Your post brings up the ultimate question of a "free" society.
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Here--in the U.S.A.--we live in a society handed down to us that includes one of the most genius inspired concepts of all time.
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The idea that no laws can be made to abridge our personal freedoms of:
#1. what we can say.
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Think of that. We get to say what we're thinking and that means that not only do we say it; but, others can hear it. And not only that they will and can give us feedback for what it is that we said; but, we can get feedback from our own thinking about what it is we said and how we came across and come across to others as well as to our self. Think of that.
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#2. what we worship
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Think of that. We can get involved in an evolution of our ideas about the divine. And, if we mix that with what we say, well, you see the point.
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#3. what we read.
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This is a biggie. Think of it. Ideas that are considered unsafe by our political leaders can get through to us in an uncensored press. We can read papers and gather ideas that would--otherwise--exist totally outside our ability to know. Ideas considered dangerous. No censorship.
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#4. who we relate with. Another biggie! We can relate with the people we run into on our day to day travels without being told we have to ignore them. Who do you know that someone thinks you would be better off not knowing?
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These four idems are pure genius as they help us overcome our lack of choices as offered to us by a restrictive political authority.
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But, we're losing it as the conservativist ruling parties are gaining more expertise at defrauding us of our civil rights.
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Jesus sets the example for standing up to authority and it cost him his life. That's crucial to understanding who Jesus is in our culture. But, if you pay attention to the religionists, you wil find that they don't believe that is what Jesus was all about. They want you to think it has something to do with your favorite flavor of pie-in-the-sky.
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-- posted by pink101

» redback - '20 questions'?

In response to '20 questions'? posted by pink101:

"Your post brings up the ultimate question of a "free" society."

My posts can bring up many questions which may take other posters to what they want to talk about. As do yours in vice versa. We can start at '"free society" as a root cause or work back to it. But for me, 'purpose' helps out. So, I guess your repeat "Think of that." goes to style and not a reminder of a task or fact you expect I may have overlooked.

"they help us overcome our lack of choices as offered to us by a restrictive political authority."

So, the ideal of true choice is a concept contaminated by the political system? AND other systems IMO such as our social systems and even drilling down to the 'bad' mother who insists only junk food enters the house. But tis the political influences that interest you more despite the manifest examples. By manifest, I mean examples so obvious, I then wonder what level of example is really needed to get the sort of reader on board that has any hope of meaningful contribution.

"...conservativist ruling parties are gaining more expertise at defrauding us of our civil rights."

But so are the criminals intent on beating the police thus us in our enjoyment of the already meagre choices dished out to our passive bodies. And despite our clumsy efforts to vote in only those who do good. Circular responsibility?

Connecting the dots in your posts now becomes a speed dial to Jesus. Not Christianity...Jesus...setting THE example for what ails us these 2000 years later on. And beware of religionists.

This is the issue behind your single question in your first post? How do I suspend what I see as multiple issues and questions to get to your question.

-- posted by redback

» pink101 - '20 questions'?

In response to '20 questions'? posted by redback:
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.I guess your repeat "Think of that." goes to style and not a reminder of a task or fact you expect I may have overlooked.
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No. I just think it is worthy of extra focus beyond what we normally exert.
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By manifest, I mean examples so obvious, I then wonder what level of example is really needed to get the sort of reader on board that has any hope of meaningful contribution.
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Damn! I like intelligent women.
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And despite our clumsy efforts to vote in only those who do good. Circular responsibility?
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I don't know; but, it is well worth discovery.
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How do I suspend what I see as multiple issues and questions to get to your question.
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You figure things out. That's great!
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:)
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-- posted by pink101

» redback - '20 questions'?

In response to '20 questions'? posted by pink101:

You responded to part one while I was working on part 2. Here's that response:

So again my posts directly respond to the issues in yours while at the same time I think your posts here are as if I have never ventured a substantive opinion on your topics. I'm the receiver and it's just my opinion. Nothing of great moment.

Beware of religionists, politicians AND IMO anyone else intending you harm. YEP, got that. The religionists and atheists provide warnings as well (some against the liberals) creating the warning palindrome. YEP, got that.

Tis still unclear++ what value if any my posts bring. Choice is only relevant to what we want, need, have to do or can do. If I'm missing out on a choice of drinking warm animal blood or a highly paid brain surgeon's career etc etc that others may desire, I'll cope without resentment towards say, politicians.

So, the issues may come down to how to heed the warnings you raise. OR what our options are when we become fully informed (our responsibility ie 'due diligence') OR what do WE do if we believe the reasons why others act the way they do is because they are not so informed.

"Jesus sets the example for standing up to authority and it cost him his life. That's crucial to understanding who Jesus is in our culture. But, if you pay attention to the religionists, you wil find that they don't believe that is what Jesus was all about. They want you to think it has something to do with your favorite flavor of pie-in-the-sky"

I've already responded to the warnings in response to the saturation coverage. As I go about my daily physical and spiritual life, the warnings mentioned here are factored in along with a whole raft of other impacting issues of seeming less importance to your topic, but impacting nevertheless. That's all part of the process which is pigeon-paired with program as repeated by me elsewhere. Everyone else gets through this as clumsy or less clumsily than me.

So the American dream is or should be to stand up to authority because that's the way Jesus still wants it? The Australian culture was to do the same but was allegedly convict based.

I repeat my comment elsewhere that the belief in the (crucifixion and) resurrection of Jesus is of the highest value to Christians so I fully respect that. I don't know what my personal beliefs have to do with the purpose of your postings.

-- posted by redback

» redback - '20 questions'?

In response to '20 questions'? posted by pink101:
"No. I just think it is worthy of extra focus beyond what we normally exert."

I had actually given you credit but the reality is I routinely think beyond what the "we" you refer to "normally" exert here. And I understand the difference between personal responses to me and broadcast posts.

"Damn! I like intelligent women."

What in the world has that got to do with me or the cited comment?

"I don't know; but, it is well worth discovery."

Good luck on your discovery tour?

"You figure things out. That's great!"

After a while, when a person such as yourself or (as previously mentioned) Ecclesiastes etc doesn't "do it for me". the MOMENT will pass by. I have an infinity of question choices other than relying on the questions you make available to me. Likewise I think I can...I think I can (repeating any number of times) narrowly sidestep the "pie in the sky" others may attempt to force feed me. I suspect there may be more like me.

-- posted by redback

» pink101 - '20 questions'?

In response to '20 questions'? posted by redback:
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What in the world has that got to do with me or the cited comment?
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Something reminded me of an old friend. Sorry. It wasn't meant for you. A mistake on my part to have mentioned that fact. Even so, I do like them.
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As to the rest of your reply, I'm not sure what I can say. I wonder if we need a moderator for our discussions. We come here when we feel like it and, most often, we give our own mind set authority over what we read and how we take it. As group members, we may be talking about as many different things as there are participants at any one time. ?? It's difficult to stay on track when posts are long or when off the wall conversations start up in the middle of any discussion.
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-- posted by pink101

» redback - part A

In response to '20 questions'? posted by pink101:

As far as I'm concerned, we don't need a moderator. I'm oft reminded by you to try to keep to a single issue at a time or simplify issues until I see you breaking that rule here.

For me, I see trying to get to the same page of understanding as you, pure and simple. No media study of this "new" thing called the internet in progress, no pseudo questioning to test if you're up to the task, no patronising pats on the head for the effort etc. Your introductory posts took us to a point I see only as filling in the background. And as you have taken us to that point before, I wonder what lies beyond it. Increased awareness re-inforcement just in case or because you think I need more convincing??? If so, YEP...got it.

" It's difficult to stay on track when posts are long or when off the wall conversations start up in the middle of any discussion."

Absolutely agree. Try keeping up when 30 posts have passed you by. AND if one poster has a defineable purpose, crikey even an 'agenda', no answer from me ever seems to meet the relevance test.

I am not keeping my beliefs secret and personal. I don't have the same belief about Jesus as you 'seem to' have. "Seem to": I have to keep qualifying these things here given the hardline, robust exchanges. Do you sense you are more hardline than say 5 years ago...Boanerges far less so? The totality of your posts and BJ's and your statement you are more in agreement with him than others. Even a superficial 'audit' of that has to leave me confused about where people are truly coming from, don't you think?

-- posted by redback

» redback - part B

In response to '20 questions'? posted by pink101:

From where I sit, you describe an unhealthy environment in the USA in terms of freedoms etc. Your blame stick sweeps hard and wide. There's a form of religion that harms us despite its benign claims; linked to corrupt politicians and all the connect-the-dots systems within that you've already covered.

Some people in the USA seem to disagree with you or live despite it or thrive/struggle within it. Can't quantify these groupings but I reckon I understand the qualitative issues. There are finite dollars to be clumsily spent and a struggle to get imperfect social systems as close to tolerable as the people's variable energy will passively or actively allow. It's hard to tolerate what the stupid majority accept even if its good for democracy?

Do we tinker at the edges until a new President comes along then resume timkering. The global view of an unhealthy environment vs the bandaid approach.

We talked 'choices'. OK...apart from the nation's choices one can theorise about, what personal choices do you see for yourself. Ponder the possibility that leaving that toxic environment IS an option. What compromises are YOU making by staying and who is accountable for that. Ponder why people stay within abusive relationships; the management of lifelong illness. Did climate change only exist when it became politically valuable. Where does the blame stick really point.

Is it all serendipidy, impotency of the individual against the massed forces railed against him or is it a call to arms against city hall, the Uncle Sam, the horrible Hagee et al. (Suppose They Gave a War and No-one Came?)

Or is it all God's will. He to give you an answer you can either live with, not understand or dislike. Under certain laws here, no answer within a specified time equates with a negative decision. And if this is THE issue, who's your problem with?

So, what do we do here in context? Bog it down with what divergent views exist between you and BJ, me and the Christian faith.

-- posted by redback

» pink101 - part A

In response to part A posted by redback:
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Yes, I agee with you.

-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - part B

In response to part B posted by redback:
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You're probably more correct in your conclusions than you are wrong.
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I think the problem is more about what people think is important--their values.
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I know that I hold ideals that many others don't much care about. I suppose if we were to discuss specifics and stay on track you and I might be able to make sense of it all.
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:)

-- posted by pink101