Psychology

» redback - struggling with self-image

In response to struggling with self-image posted by LauriePK:

Laurie's topics really get me thinking out loud...for too long. Be patient with me.

Hi Pink

i"I think Laurie might be on to something, actually. Don't you?"

I don't know..and I don't know how your post fits in to Laurie's premise. There are countless anecdotes and what we called at work "horror stories" to fit many occasions involving coping with life's challenges. Countless more never hit this particular radar as they coped well or coped unaided...so I was always cautious to draw conclusions. And you may recall I don't like labels and generalisations. SO, my questions above remain and I'd probably prefer to see the data.

Following Laurie along my line of thinking, the end result could mean one or both parents carry the gene. Thus, the question could be why does it bypass some siblings. That's where we have countless studies of twins, eg:
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/1...

Are we confusing links and causal relationships? The fact 50% of married couples were male used to require no analysis. Crossdressing and bisexuality within marriage and what is a "struggle"?

And if the gene could be identified, do potential parents get the chance of further pre-selection. To this simple dag, what is the question being asked here?

I read your points. Does 'fraternal-based' homosexuality arise from any power play between male siblings? Is it the one who "wins" the power or the one who loses it (or never had it), the determinant or indicator? Is it only indicative of the predatory homosexual ie not to be confused with the predatory heterosexual?

I'm not sure I get your point except homosexuality may be learned from ancient times vs genetic? Why not an unknown combination of both where the exact mix is almost irrelevant.

Hi Laurie.

I have only just read your linked article then your self-image response. As I read it, 10% of those studied (number??) with eating disorders are male. 50% of these are understood to have engaged in "homosexual conduct" before the eating disorder. The North American stereotype of "masculine" is the benchmark they failed with some unknown performance indicators of 'struggle'. (some struggle in silence?) It's not stated how many of the 90% of sufferers ie female struggled with stereotypical "femininity" as an indicator of their homosexuality. Chance or similarities with males?

Some of our footballers and high profile sports stars etc meet your stated "North American definition of "masculinity" except for the alleged contradiction their homosexuality brings.

I never found your definition but I can see while it may exclude the "sensitive new age guy" if they really exist it would not preclude impotency.

Seriously, I wouldn't know whether you are describing a risk factor, genetic factor or simply statistical odds. When we examine the incidence of mental ill-health, does it involve a disproportionate number of homosexuals?

There were extensive studies here clearly linking prison record, drugs, housebreaking (to buy drugs), claiming welfare in one certain area to say the odds were very high that if one factor was established, all others very probably existed. How sound is the 'discovery' you talk about?

Homosexual activity in prison is common. What's the self-image of those who submit? Do most transgender males suffer eating disorders?

-- posted by redback

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» pink101 - struggling with self-image

In response to struggling with self-image posted by redback:
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I don't know a great deal about homosexuality.
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What I do know, I've learned from people I know and have met along the way. I see homosexuality as somehting that seems to have almost any number of causes including the one where a boy is born with overly amounts of female traits physically.
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And, there does seem to be, in some cases, a pecking order type relationship in men and this seems to lend itself to a type of homosexuality with a domineering male who forces weaker males to submit to his demands. I have known some situations in which I suspect there may have been that kind of an arangment among a group of men. I don't hang with those types; but, I know they're out there. Sick!
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-- posted by pink101

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» redback - struggling with self-image

In response to struggling with self-image posted by pink101:

Hi Pink.

Casual observations do play a part in this type of research but there are methodologies, sampling techniques, random sampling, control subjects etc that tries to remove chance from the equation. I know Laurie would be accessing a lot of this data so her comments may not need to rely on the anecdotal. Its not something I have taken the time to do because it has not been part of any outcome focus. So, the facts of it are unknown to me.

But I have dealt with it objectively and subjectively. A gay couple is entitled to more welfare support than a heterosexual couple and can live unnoticed in suburbia, "High camp" gays may be deliberately referred to "masculine" jobs to ensure they get harassed etc.

So, I came at this with an open mind.

Let's say Laurie's research totally, categorically supports her premise? Maybe cognitive behaviour therapies can be better targeted to an individual. A homosexual struggle or a body image struggle both involve 'identity' so sub-groups may need differentiating for some purpose.

Research always has value.

-- posted by redback

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» pink101 - More To The Question

In response to struggling with self-image posted by redback:
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Research always has value.
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Oyez, oyez. So true.
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I've been giving this subject some thought for the past day or so. I don't think the question is a simple 1. homo, 2. bi, 3. atraight question. Things are not that black and white.
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Sexuality is the real question--forget the simplistic ideas. Sex is what it is. There is a drive within the body that isn't satisfied by saying, homo, bi, or straight. When I was a young dude in the Marine Corps, there was a saying that went around, "Any port in a storm.". I think Laurie has to expand her premise beyond the narrow limits of homosexuality. There's more to the question than that.
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-- posted by pink101

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» redback - beige, black, white?

In response to More To The Question posted by pink101:

"There's more to the question than that." Your question or Laurie's?

We haven't progressed much beyond the anecdotal.

I thought my comments clearly indicated the lack of simplicity and other questions. Why do the research Laurie refers to? I thought Laurie's question turned to the single issue of homosexuality and whether there is an increased incidence the more brothers within a family, and which of the brothers had the higher "risk" of being homosexual.

Homosexual activity and its relative (dis)approval would be irrelevant to that question. But if they somehow are part of the project, the results may be corrupted.

There are too many variables and probably insufficient participants methinks to get good results from such a study.

Instead are you asking about the degree and direction of the sex drive as the major force within some, all or most of us? The sexual activity must be either homosexual in nature or heterosexual??? How does the deliberately chaste fit into this?

-- posted by redback

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» pink101 - How About This?

In response to beige, black, white? posted by redback:
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How about this?
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The more people of one sex, the more homosexuals there are.
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An example would be, if there are a thousand males in a certain group there wlll be more homosexuals than there would be in a group of 100 males.
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:)
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Or,
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Does the ratio of men to women have an effect on homosexuality? If there are 100 men and 20 women rather than a 50/50 ration does the incidence of male homosexuality increase? And, will the homosexual males be the ones the women consider to be less attractive?
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Does male homosexuality increase in countries where wealthy males can have more than one wife? How about men in break off LDS church groups in which the principle in practiced (polygamy)? Obviously, if the rich men can have many wives, some guys are left to themselves or each other.
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:)
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Just having a little fun, Laurie. Don't be upset.
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-- posted by pink101

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» Laurie Pawlik-Kienlen - How About This?

In response to How About This? posted by pink101:

I'm not upset at all - but I feel so ignorant! There's so much underlying a "simple" statement about brothers and homosexuality. These questions hadn't occurred to me - I was just marveling at the possibility that # of sibs can affect your sexual orientation.

The great thing about written discussions is that you can identify bunny trails, and point out what was said by whom in what context.

(Anyone notice I'm creating a new bunny trail?)

I wonder if studying the ancient roots of homosexuality would uncover more answers? This is an age-old thing -- I also wonder if different cultures have different incidents of same-sex couples.

And, I wonder if the answers to all these questions are already out there somewhere! We need only access the mounds of research and information...

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» redback - How About This?

In response to How About This? posted by LauriePK:
If behaviour is learned and homosexuality is only learned, then the scenarios are already countless. Then add genetics.

My favourite picture on my desk remains one of God in his laboratory. ('Far Side') He has many, many jars with various contents...birds, insects, medium-skinned people etc etc. He is shaking the contents of one jar over the Earth, thinking: "And just to make it interesting..." The jar contains...jerks! ABC

I'm sure just out of screen is a jar of dags and most other things that make up this rich tapestry of life. Pink is undoubtedly in a jar of his own.

"..And, I wonder if the answers to all these questions..."

Can't help you there. I don't even know all the questions.

-- posted by redback

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» pink101 - How About This?

In response to How About This? posted by redback:
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Pink is undoubtedly in a jar of his own.
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I was kinda enterested in that jar with the jerks. What's the name of that illustration? Do you think it might be found on the 'Net?
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Maybe the jar I was shook from is filled with anomalies.
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:)
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-- posted by pink101

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» redback - How About This?

In response to How About This? posted by pink101:

It's from a newspaper but I'm sure you'll find it in one of 'The Far Side' books by Gary Larson. The jars have salt shaker type lids so I think it was all pretty well controlled. ABC

-- posted by redback

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